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Cannot install any linuz disto on ny pc
#1
Hi   just joined this forum and looking for advice on installing linux ,,
i have a samsung 250 gig ssd runnung windows 10 ,,,and a unallocated 500 gig hd where i want to put a linux distro
i have a Gigabyte Technology Co. Ltd. 970A-UD3P  mother board 
AMD FX-8350 ,,,,,, cpu   8gb of ddr3 ram
Im a bit confused with the bios settings  ,,uefi/legacy   uefi only  legacy only  
ive tried in the past to run linux mint  but kept getting error messages saying file system not found and swap space not found 
now i have downloaded ubuntu  18.04.1 mate 
i have no problem installing on virtual box  but would like to install on a physical hd 
Thanks
#2
where does it say im dual booting ,,i used a diff hard drive for the install
#3
(12-26-2018, 09:44 AM)aetesaki Wrote: Perhaps, but you seem to indicate that both disks are available at the same time, or are you "smart" and disables the "wrong" drive each time you boot the computer?

That is not nexessary.
Dual booting is not a good idea, as long as both windows and linux are on the same physical drive,
but if you use seperate drives, windows won't touch your linux installation.
The number one breaking point for dual boots is windows overwriting the boot loader when updating,
but when both linux and windows have their own disk, windows will only write its bootloader to the drive it is installed on.

Therefore, dual boots with multiple drives are fine, as long as you either use the boot menu of your BIOS to choose the boot drive or let the linux drive be the primary one, as GRUB can chainload the windows boot loader.
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#4
(12-26-2018, 01:45 PM)aetesaki Wrote: Please specify what you mean by "using the BIOS boot menu to choose your boot drive"

Some BIOS feature a boot menu,
where you press some key (mostly F2 or F12) during boot and a menu pops up,
asking you what drive you would like to boot from.
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"Things are only impossible until they’re not." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
#5
(12-26-2018, 02:22 PM)aetesaki Wrote:
(12-26-2018, 02:01 PM)leon.p Wrote:
(12-26-2018, 01:45 PM)aetesaki Wrote: Please specify what you mean by "using the BIOS boot menu to choose your boot drive"

Some BIOS feature a boot menu,
where you press some key (mostly F2 or F12) during boot and a menu pops up,
asking you what drive you would like to boot from.

That's what I was afraid of. 
As long as you remember to enter BIOS each time you boot the other OS, it will work, just as disabling the wrong disk physically. However, if you chain load Windows this way, Windows may still overwrite GRUB if it's allowed to update without disabling the wrong drive, either physically or in BIOS, as you suggest.
It's still a risky business, and you are still better off having two computers

Sorry, but you are wrong.
When you have two drives (not partitions, two physically different drives),
one with a standard windows installation, one with a standard linux installation,
both being autark, having nothing to do with the other drive besides being plugged into the same computer, both being able to boot when selected as main drive, then you have nothing to fear.
In the boot order of your BIOS, simply put the one you would like to be the primary drive above the ther, secondary, drive.
That one will boot by default if the computer is turned on.
Now, if you would like the other one to boot, you can either alter your boot order, or use the boot menu on startup; The other drive will now boot.
You can also create an option for GRUB (on the linux drive) to chainload the boot loader on the other drive (the windows drive), so you can have your linux drive as your all time primary drive but could still have a menu to select the operating system you would like to boot.
This GRUB entry will only change one single file on the linux drive, the windows drive remains unaltered; There are no parts of GRUB on the windows drive.
When windows now updates its boot loader, it will only overwrite the MBR of its own drive, no part of GRUB is overwritten.

A dual boot with the operating systems living on physically seperate drives is no more risky than a standard windows installation, because even an operating system as shitty as windows will not randomly overwrite other disks.
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"Things are only impossible until they’re not." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
#6
(12-26-2018, 04:42 PM)aetesaki Wrote: No, I am not wrong.
The danger is that, if you chain boot Windows using the Linux drive's Master Boot Loader in the Master Boot Record of the Linux drive, and Windows does a major update, it may write its boot loader as the Master Boot Loader on the boot drive, where you have installed GRUB, and overwrite it. It isn't that Windows will randomly overwrite another disk, it's that you has told Windows that the Linux drive is the boot drive, and thus allowed it to write it's boot loader on the Master Boot Record on that drive.

Though, yes, if you never chain load Windows using GRUB, or never has a major Windows update executing while chain loading it, you are, of course, safe. Windows will not randomly overwrite the MBR of another drive that's NOT the boot drive. But you still have a single point of failure, so you better have good backups if you dual boot, even using that method.

Yes you are.
Windows does not know, which drive was booted first.
Windows is not desinged to have the bootloader installed on a different drive than the system itself, therefore windows will always assume that the drive it is installed on is the boot drive and will only ever overwrite the MBR of that drive.
When GRUB is chainloading the windows boot loader of a second drive,
it reads the MBR of that drive into memory and asks the BIOS the execute that.
Windows has no idea it is chainloaded.
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"Things are only impossible until they’re not." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
#7
(12-26-2018, 05:40 PM)aetesaki Wrote: Being lucky, isn't the same a being right.
If you want to continue this discussion, please do so at Dual booting is for idiots.

I don't need to be lucky, since I don't dual boot.
Even if I did dual boot the way I described it,
I still would not need to be lucky since I actually am right.

All you do is repeat your initial points,
therefore I see no reason to continue this one-sided discussion.

However I might comment your "dual booting is for idiots" post at a later time,
as it has some factual errors which could be misleading for some people.



I do not encourage dual booting,
but one should still stay to the truth, even if argueing for the right cause.
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"Things are only impossible until they’re not." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
#8
Hello,

Actualy leon.p is right: the only way windows changes/overwrite grub is when windows gets updates. Specificly boot loader updates, then he simply overwrite what ever boot loader you have. This is what makes your linux partitions unable to boot.

So to avoir that you have 2 choices:
1-do as Leon suggested and have your windows in a separate physical so when his bootlader get updates it is not messing with grub or:
2-if you can not have an extra drive (i am looking at you laptop Smile )simply use easybcd to make a new entry in the windows boot loader pointing to grub. This way if you lose your grub entry you can just make a new one by using again easybcd.


About option 1: I need to specify: as long as windows don't know about any other drives it wont mess with them. And i am preety much sure it is what Leon had in minde.
#9
(12-27-2018, 02:09 PM)aetesaki Wrote:
(12-27-2018, 11:07 AM)Tuxinho Wrote: 1-do as Leon suggested and have your windows in a separate physical so when his bootlader get updates it is not messing with grub or:

Just beware that you never boot Windows from the Linux drive if you use this method.

I am not going to repeat myself,
you are not listening anyway...


(12-27-2018, 02:09 PM)aetesaki Wrote:
Quote:2-if you can not have an extra drive (i am looking at you laptop Smile )simply use easybcd to make a new entry in the windows boot loader pointing to grub. This way if you lose your grub entry you can just make a new one by using again easybcd.

This is the method I describe in my post Dual boot is for idiots. And as Linux, unlike Windows, will never overwrite the Master Boot Loader, this method is safer than the first

Actually, linux will overwrite the MBR when updating GRUB by default.
However, most distributions use a script called "OS prober" to probe the disk for other operating systems which then automatically creates GRUB entries for them.
If you don't want this behaviour, you have to explicitly tell the installer not to write GRUB to the MBR.


(12-27-2018, 02:09 PM)aetesaki Wrote:
(12-27-2018, 09:56 AM)leon.p Wrote: However I might comment your "dual booting is for idiots" post at a later time,
as it has some factual errors which could be misleading for some people.

I look forward to shredding you knowledge

Mate, you are making a lot of stuff up, either for the sake of fear mongering
and / or just to sound knowledgeable.

There won't be much "shredding" done by you for sure...
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"Things are only impossible until they’re not." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
#10
(12-27-2018, 07:21 PM)aetesaki Wrote:
(12-27-2018, 05:59 PM)leon.p Wrote: Actually, linux will overwrite the MBR when updating GRUB by default.
However, most distributions use a script called "OS prober" to probe the disk for other operating systems which then automatically creates GRUB entries for them.
If you don't want this behaviour, you have to explicitly tell the installer not to write GRUB to the MBR.

Which MBR does it overwrite during updating? Does it overwrite the Master Boot Loader, or just the local boot loader for the Linux drive?

By default, installing GRUB writes its first stage into the MBR of a disk,
usually to the one that also contains the root of the linux installation.
When updating GRUB, the original installation gets overwritten.

Therefore, updating GRUB usually causes the MBR of your disk to be overwritten,
except when you have installed GRUB without writing it to the MBR.



In my example of a seperate-disk dual boot, a GRUB update will overwrite the MBR of the linux drive
but, logically, leave the MBR of the windows drive as is.
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"Things are only impossible until they’re not." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard


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