Poll: Has Windows Ran Itself Into The Ground?
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YES! It Is Worthless!
72.22%
13 72.22%
It's Still Ok.
27.78%
5 27.78%
NO! Windows Is Fantastic!
0%
0 0%
Total 18 vote(s) 100%
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Antique PC has me thinking
#1
Lightbulb 
Yesterday my old HP turned 11. So I went out and got a new hard drive for its birthday. And while I was cloning the old hard drive I started thinking. This Computer is REALLY OLD!!
The average life span of my computers are about 2 years before they break down, needing fixed or replaced as I leave them on 24/7.
To put things into perspective, I have a 2 year old Chihuahua. By the time she is 11 she will have probably died of old age.
This computer has lived about 4.5 times longer than any other PC I have ever had.
If a person who is 60 is considered old. Then working on this PC would be like going for a jog with a friend that was 270 years old!
And still be able to out run you!

And although that by itself is amazing. What has me thinking is this,
The old BOX is running Kubuntu 18.04 like it was a new PC. It opens files, videos, and web pages faster than my wife's brand new laptop (which runs windows).
It has been a long time since windows has been installed on a computer of mine. (not including VMs)

Has windows really gotten that bad? That an antique computer runs faster with an up to date Linux OS, than a new computer running windows 10? Really!?

For those interested,
The Laptop has 12GB ram, 6 cores and 1.5TB hard drive, and a 64GB M2 SSD (System & Page Files)
The old BOX has 2GB, 2 cores and (Now) a 3TB hard drive.
the Laptop should be running circles around the old BOX.

Yet another reason to Love Linux.
A computer without Microsoft is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard.
-
It is okay to not be able to answer a question,
however it should be a crime to not be able to question an answer.

@ArrowLinux
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#2
My 6 year old Laptop came with Windoze 7 and always ran slow...about 18 mths ago I installed Mint 18...it started to run like lightning with the same Hardware because Windoze sucks and is full of bloatware and crap that slows your computer down.

I'm not a Laptop person but several weeks ago I installed Mint Cinnamon 19 on it and runs just as fast as 18 did.  The same applys to my Desktop...it use to run Windoze 7 too and as everybody knows...when you Boot into Windoze you wait and wait until everything loads (That's why I call it Windoze because you start to Doze off waiting)  Angry even with a clean install and over time gets even slower. 

Just not the case with Linux Mint...Boot to the Desktop...start using it strait away and always fast...even faster on a new computer...go Linux.  Big Grin
Linux Forever...Windoze Never
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#3
One more thing is windows is on version 10 and if you compare it to linuxMint 19 it is kind of equivalent to running windows 14 because it doesn't take near as long to advance.(just imagine windows 14 "speed" on those computers)
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#4
I think Windows is what MS has made of it. Back when it started, MS listened to its customers and responded. It achieved well over 90% market share and then started looking around. Its closest competitor was Apple. So it started becoming Apple. (You will do Windows MY WAY, not your way!) The thing is, I bought windows because I didn't like Apple. So now I don't like windows. I'm a Linux boy.

Is it useful? If you need to run a windows only program, yes. Otherwise, NO.

JT
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#5
(09-07-2018, 01:11 PM)Victarr Wrote: I think Windows is what MS has made of it. Back when it started, MS listened to its customers and responded. It achieved well over 90% market share and then started looking around. Its closest competitor was Apple. So it started becoming Apple. (You will do Windows MY WAY, not your way!) The thing is, I bought windows because I didn't like Apple. So now I don't like windows. I'm a Linux boy.

Is it useful? If you need to run a windows only program, yes. Otherwise, NO.

JT

I agree 100%

Back in the day I was a windows fanboy more or less. Then windows 8 happened. And IMHO it just got worse from there. I jumped to Linux full time at 8.1 and I haven't missed it one bit. In fact I remember that first month. It felt like the chains had been lifted off of me. For the first time in a long time I was free to use software the way " I " wanted. it was great, and it still is. Its Microsoft's loss not ours.
A computer without Microsoft is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard.
-
It is okay to not be able to answer a question,
however it should be a crime to not be able to question an answer.

@ArrowLinux
Reply
#6
this is an update.

The monitor on the old BOX died.
Though technically the old BOX still works, and well. unless I can find a cheep monitor I am going to have to shelf it for a while.

Its a sad day for me. I did some of my best work with the BOX. Arrowlinux and  BOW were born on that old BOX.
Hopefully I can get a monitor for it soon.

Maybe I will go look in storage for an old TV and try to hook it up that away. any ideas?

anyway
kudos
A computer without Microsoft is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard.
-
It is okay to not be able to answer a question,
however it should be a crime to not be able to question an answer.

@ArrowLinux
Reply
#7
(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: Ok, I know I'm swearing in the church, but I don't get it. Why in the computer's most dustiest fan blade does so many in the Linux community think Linux is the best thing since sliced bread?

Windows is still the best all-purpose OS on the marked! In fact it is the only all-purpose OS on the marked, as MacOS is locked to a single computer manufacturer. And while a small amount of hard core Linux fanatics makes claims of Linux being an all-purpose OS, the unfortunate truth is that Linux can only be turned into an all-purpose OS by hard core Linux fanatics

Don't get me wrong, as an advanced Linux user, I find Linux quite useful, for its purposes, but there is no way in Google's most extreme search result manipulation that I would've been using Linux at all if I didn't have more than one computer. Linux just isn't the all-purpose OS it's most extreme proponents claim it is.

Windows is OK

Windows still does have a role to play for sure but the tide is shifting even at Microsoft.

Is Linux for everyone?  No.

Is Windows still the "best"? That depends on your definition.

Is Windows the safest?  No.  Is Windows the most freedom respecting?  No.  Is Windows free of issues?  Heck no.

Does Linux run every Windows program that may be needed? Of course not.

There are still many valid arguments for why running Linux is a good idea for many people short of change, which is often disliked.

The vast majority of Windows users could use Linux without must issue in our modern world.  Many people just need a web browser and office suite.

However I converted many newbie's to Linux and they few issues.  I also support many clients with constant failures on Windows.  Also hardware matters on both platforms.  There is good quality and bad quality hardware and you will see a difference.

If Linux doesn't work for you in a general setting that is fine.  Windows is still out there as a choice.
Jeremy (Mr. Server)

* Desktop: Ubuntu MATE
* Windows are for your walls, Apple is for your health, Linux is for your computer
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#8
Well the conversation was originally about general computing.  If you want to talk about specific devices then Windows is a lost cause period.

I agree more and more of the general public are relying on mobile devices.  In reality the smartphone as even tablet sales are falling like rock.  Windows is a non starter in the mobile market.  Microsoft bought Nokia to try and push Windows Mobile and it failed big time.

Android, which owns most of the worldwide market 80% plus, is a Linux distro basically.  Google is looking at changing this away from the Linux underpinnings but they aren't looking at Windows.  iOS is based on BSD and more so FreeBSD.  So phone wise Windows isn't even a player period.  Windows has had some success with the surface but that is really just a slim laptop.

So mobile device wise Windows has lost the battle.  People want iOS or Android period, at least in any mass amount.

Now if we shift to IoT Windows again has lost that battle too.  GoPro is Linux powered, Nest is Linux powered, Ring is Linux powered, printers are Linux powered, switches and routers are Linux powered or Unix powered, smartwatches are Linux powered (Android or Linux itself) or BSD powered (iOS), cameras are Linux powered, and list goes on and on and on and on and on.  Windows is not powering those devices.

The only real place Windows has had much success was in car infotainment systems.  Ford was using some Windows powered for example.

Windows is a dying technology like it or not.  Microsoft has officially disbanded the Windows team.  They are stopping development on Edge and moving to Chromium base for their own browser.  Microsoft is all in on Azure, Xbox, and online services like Office 365.  Still even on Azure more Linux instances are deployed than Windows and this is by Microsoft's own public data.  Also if you talk general servers Linux far out paces Windows.

Windows is receiving less and less attention from Microsoft itself.  So it is not adapting.  Steam is trying to get away from Windows and why they have invested so heavily into Proton.

However, as I said earlier, the Linux desktop (which is what we were mainly discussing) is not for everyone.  The masses now really just need that web browser which works on any OS.  Linux is a good fit because it brings in better security and stability when paired with good hardware.  Still if someone is just a gamer (or one 99% of the time) or has to have a critical piece of Windows software and can't or doesn't want a second computer then Windows is still the valid choice for now.  So I stand by Linux desktop is not for everyone, but it still and should be aimed as a good general desktop for the masses.

I have personally switch many that are very happy with their general purpose Linux desktops and laptops.  So far not one client, family, or friend has switched back to Windows or when asked wants to go back.  However having said that some I have said don't bother stay with Windows because of their specific need for a piece of software but as stated that isn't as common.
Jeremy (Mr. Server)

* Desktop: Ubuntu MATE
* Windows are for your walls, Apple is for your health, Linux is for your computer
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#9
(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: Why [...] does so many in the Linux community think Linux is the best thing since sliced bread?

Because it is the best mix of usability, hardware support, freedom, sane software design, adaptability, etc...

Is the the absolute best? No, many operating systems and kernels do some  stuff better. As an example, the HURD of the GNU project is objectively the better kernel, but basically no hardware support and only few developers working on the project cause it to be unusable. The Plan9 operating system brings many of the UNIX ideas to the next level, but suffers from the same problems as the HURD and in addition is simply not as customisable. Windows, while having better support for general purpose consumer hardware, is simply not user friendly, in the sense that it takes active steps harming the user, more complex, so really bad for anything that needs to be stable, despite having a micro kernel actually more monolithic than Linux. Also windows support for file systems other than NTFS and (ex)FAT is extremely poor.

And let's not ignore a simple fact: UNIX > DOS


(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: And while a small amount of hard core Linux fanatics makes claims of Linux being an all-purpose OS, the unfortunate truth is that Linux can only be turned into an all-purpose OS by hard core Linux fanatics

These "hard core Linux fanatics", as you call them, often work as maintainers for distributions, software developers or provide help to new users, so in fact they keep Linux an all purpose operating system not just for themselves but for everyone.


(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: Windows is still the best all-purpose OS on the marked!

I have the feeling that your definition of "all purpose[s]" is solely defined by personal computers.

Linux runs on PCs, super computers, mainframes, embedded devices, satellites, a space station, cars, tablets, phones, specialised devices like routers or printers, TVs and many more.

So Linux can actually serve more purposes then windows.


In addition, UNIX workstations have always been more advanced, and usable than their DOS and later Windows counterparts. Linux is simply carrying on this tradition. They had a proper desktop environment before windows had it. They had workspaces long before windows had them (over a decade!). They had virtualisation before windows had it. They had multi-monitor support before windows had it. In fact Xorg is still more advanced than whatever windows uses to draw graphics to the screen, and yet there is already a movement towards something even more advanced: Wayland. When it comes to the quality of the desktop, windows was alway behind and I doubt that will change in the near future.


(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: Linux just isn't the all-purpose OS it's most extreme proponents claim it is.

I use Linux for everything. My mother uses Linux for everything. My grand-mother uses Linux for everything. My sister uses Linux for everything. At least three of my friends use Linux for everything. At least a third of all people in my departement at university use Linux for everything.

If it serves all my purposes and all their purposes, I am lead to believe that it serves enough purposes to be considered a general purpose personal operating system, for consumers and professionals alike.


(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: Windows is OK

For your purposes maybe, but I know a lot of normal PC users for whom windows is simply not suited.


(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: Perhaps, but only because people are shifting towards using more specialized devices.
[...]
People will then need to own multiple computer devices, each for their own specific use.

The trend for the last few decades has been away from dedicated devices towards all-purpose devices. I don't see this changing enytime soon.


(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: Specialized computer devices are on the rise, and the need for an all-purpose OS is falling, so the Linux community shouldn't even try to push Linux towards that goal any longer. It's a failing scheme

Specialised devices are simply impractical. There might be some options for niche purposes, like gaming, but overall having a computer that can simply do everything the user needs on its own is not just more practical, but also cheaper, more efficient and considerably more secure.

(And even when it comes to gaming, even if we will see dedicated playing servers and graphical terminals, the servers will most likely run Linux in the future. Valve has prominently stated that Linux is the better platform, even for gaming.)

Despite, this idea is not new. It has been tried countless of times. In the 90s, the creators of UNIX tried it with Plan9 and later Inferno. Have you seen any such system in use for real world purposes? I haven't.


(08-19-2019, 09:13 AM)aetesaki Wrote: [...] the Linux community shouldn't even try to push Linux towards that goal any longer.

Yes, it is a community, not a product. In other words, we can do whatever we want to do.

If you follow certain outlets of this community of subcommunites, like forums, subreddits, mailinglists or blogs, you will often see people coming in and boldly claiming "Linux should do X" or "Linux shouln't do X". They sometimes get a bit of traction, but they don't change anything, ever. Why? Because the free software ecosystem grows naturally. There is no leader and unlike some claims, the thing is neither capitalistic nor communisitic. If you look past all of the talk and arguements about licenses, free vs open, feature vs bloat, minimalism vs usability, GNU vs BSD, and such, you will find that at its core the community still works like the oldschool hacker culture during Stallmans time at the MITs artificial intelligencs labs. Where you do something because it is cool, where you write a program because you can write that program, where you hack away on your operating system simply because you are bored. And unlike the hackers at MIT, this community as a whole can not be bought and will live past the lifetimes of the people who started it, naturally growing and evolving.
My website - My git repos

"Things are only impossible until they’re not." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
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#10
Heart
Damn leon.p!
I have just been schooled about Linux.... All I can say is WOW!

I couldn't agree more. I have been around since Dos 3. I have used Unix some too.
I remember when Windows 1.0 came out and it had a GUI interface thing. It was also a
command prompt that started it... Big Grin

I will say that for all of its advancements, bloat, spying, Update issues, Windows has went
the wrong way which is backwards. It is sad, in the beginning Windows a neat OS but now its
not anymore and the hardcore's Windows people will hold on to the last.
The smart ones have (me included) got of of the train wreck called Windows.

Yes we are a community of users and people that love to use computer, we want to do
all kind of neat and wondrous things. Linux has given us all the ability to make things
happen, get things done, play games, write books, build scripts and learn this 
fantastic operating system called Linux.

I for one am very happy to have lived in this day and age, I have see the 50's through today!
I have seen some cool and neat not to mention fantastic invitation and progress to what we
have today is just mind blowing. I wish I could live another 60 years to see what happens!

I am sure that folks 60 years from now will look back at us and wonder what all the fuss was
about Linux and Windows...LOL
OK Hal, open the pod bay doors... Hal?
LLAP
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