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Linux gone political correct
#1
I cant believe linux would jump in this debate about raciest wording or whatever you want to call this foolishness
when you give in and change wording like Whitelist, Darklist blacklist etc to me you are just giving in to foolish punks that are parading in the streets trashing our country. my respect for the linux programmers went downhill drastically,, go ahead and bash me if you liker but this is my opinion.
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#2
Trying to change the language we all use = waste of time and effort.
Mr Lunduke sums it all up more eloquently than  I could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_HzEmGOVJ4

apology - link fixed
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#3
(07-13-2020, 11:51 AM)Geodude Wrote: change wording like Whitelist, Darklist blacklist

To be fair, "allowlist" and "denylist" are better words than "whitelist" and "blacklist" regardless of what political charge they may or may not hold, simply because those words are self descriptive.

In technology, language should be as verbose and clear as possible with as little words as possible, so I see the exchange of those two words positively.



Also generally it is a good idea to not get agitated over stuff that does not affect you. Why care what language developers use when you are not interacting with them?
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#4
the English Language is at fault. It was created by oppressors by robbing their concurred societies of their idiomas.
Ban English. It can't be fixed.
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#5
(07-13-2020, 11:51 AM)Geodude Wrote: I cant believe linux would jump in this debate about raciest wording or whatever you want to call this foolishness
when you give in and change wording like Whitelist, Darklist blacklist etc to me you are just giving in to foolish punks that are parading in the streets trashing our country. my respect for the linux programmers went downhill drastically,, go ahead and bash me if you liker but this is my opinion.

(07-13-2020, 01:40 PM)Gaz511 Wrote: Trying to change the language we all use = waste of time and effort.
Mr Lunduke sums it all up more eloquently than  I could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_HzEmGOVJ4

My respect for the Linux programmers just went up considerably. When someone is on the oppressed end of the stick, language does matter. Like it or not, words have power that can influence the attitudes of people. Sadly, there are far too many selfish people here in the SSA (Squabbling States of America; the USA has never been united), and the rest of the world, who care only for themselves and are insensitive to the feelings and welfare of others. Just because certain words or phrases have been in use for a long time doesn't mean they aren't insulting or demeaning to a certain demographic or that their meanings and usage haven't changed over time.

The use of black and white to denote good and bad respectively is a perfect example of how powerful words can be. Just because that usage has been in place for centuries does not make it correct or harmless. Using that argument, slavery would be correct and harmless.

People are resistant to change. With our world changing so rapidly and dramatically, change can, and often has, become overwhelming. Still, that doesn't justify being insensitive to the feelings and plight of others.

I had to do a quick search for Bryan Lunduke's loquacious, smarmy, petty, and ignorant diatribe since the link to it given here is broken. He is a perfect example of selfish insensitivity to the feeling of others that is especially prevalent nowadays.

I agree that, with the current pandemic going on right now, it is foolish, no, let's make that stupid, and selfish to be holding mass demonstrations with no regard to the need for face masks and social distancing right now due to the current pandemic (mass public demonstrations are not the only way to get the attention of leaders and lawmakers). However, globally referring to the demonstrators as being "...punks that are parading in the streets trashing our country..." shows a lack of knowledge of the entire picture. Most news outlets love to emphasize negative news because it boosts ratings so most of what they report are the demonstrations which have gone violent (violence mostly fomented by hate groups infiltrating the demonstrations). The fact is, most of the demonstrations being held since the death of George Floyd have been peaceful, albeit stupid, despite what the news outlets have been portraying (btw, I'm no supporter of a hateful, violent criminal like Floyd but his death was still murder). What's "trashing" the SSA right now is people selfishly and ignorantly ignoring the pandemic going on right now and the need for the sadly restrictive measures needed to save lives.
Jeannie

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!
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#6
Linux Developers should stick with developing.
leave Politics out of it.

spin it how you like, but this effort to change word usage is Political.
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#7
(07-13-2020, 04:41 PM)mexsudo Wrote: Linux Developers should stick with developing.

And who are you to claim authority over what Linux developers should or should do?

It is not even a lot of effort to change some words: Use the search replace function of your editor or 'sed', test if it still compiles, done. The names of variables and functions are changed all the time in all kinds of projects.


(07-13-2020, 04:41 PM)mexsudo Wrote: spin it how you like, but this effort to change word usage is Political.

No one ever claimed otherwise. But just be realistic for once. This has no negative effect for you. So why are you making such a fuss about it?

Ok, you disagree about it being necessary. Fine. Disagree and move on. Why the noise?
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#8
I agree with Lady Fitzgerald and leon-p. That said, what follows is my own personal opinion.

We should start by putting this issue into perspective. This language debate isn't a criticism Linux programmers or specific hardware companies or people who use a specific programming language. It is an effort to change the language of the entire computing industry. So lets all try not to take it personally.

Do I think some people are being overly sensitive about certain words they find offensive or distasteful? Yes.

Do I think there are often other equally good, equally concise, and in some cases easier-to-understand terms that could be easily substituted for those offensive/distasteful terms? Yes.

Should we, as a matter of courtesy, make those changes and substitutions in an orderly manner as new software and documentation is created? Yes.

But should we as a society automatically agree with and try to placate everyone who is offended by something even when their offense is the result of ignorance or misunderstanding? No. We need to approach matters like this in a calm, thoughtful, even-handed way. For example there have been public outcries about the term "black hole" in the sense of bottomless pit, and an animal shelter that had an abundance of black dogs and cats was loudly criticized for being racist because they advertised a "black pets adoption day". IOW, a legitimate concern, taken to extremes, becomes trivial, silly, and sometimes downright stupid. So we need to look carefully at all complaints about language and then decide rationally if we should change our own behavior or just explain to the complainers that the term in question doesn't mean what they think it does.
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#9
Freedom of speech is either freedom of speech or it isn't. There is no grey area.

I study history, I always have, because it intrigues me. How people repeat the same mistakes of other failed countries over and over. What intrigues me most is that every time they believe "This time will be different". It never is.

I am a Canadian living in Mexico. I live here mostly because of my wife, but also because I am free to think and speak how I want. The entire idea of thought police, and PC is just asinine. It never turns out well for anyone.

As for this specific change,
Mankind throughout history (regardless of their language) has referred to white and black as "light and dark, good and bad" since the time of Moses, Abraham and Sarah, and even Jesus some 2000 - 6,000 years ago. Many thousands of years before the slavery of Africans. This reference has absolutely NOTHING to do with skin color.

Do I feel strong enough about it to do something? No.
Because as for code, this is no different than changing the name of a variable to better describe what it holds

If I ruffle some feathers here, I stand my ground.
Skin is an organ. Imagine if someone wouldn't let you live in a certain place because your eyes were the wrong color. stupid right? In principle it is the same thing.
I lived in America for a while. And I learned that a racist isn't racist against black people. They are racist against anyone who isn't their race. To them I am a Yankee. It used to be offensive. Now the word has no teeth.

But I still strongly believe that people are entitled to their opinions. Weather it is offensive or not. because to shut the mouth of anyone is to glue your own mouth shut. And I like talking.

If a word offends me, I know the problem isn't the word, it is me. Because I am stronger than that word. No matter what the word is.

This word police idea is tantamount to standing at the foot of Pompeii and complaining about the hairstyle of your neighbor.
There are far bigger problems In your country then wordplay. Lets not get stuck on such trivial things.

Haven't we matured enough to put racism behind us? Why cant we just get along?

respectfully: Elias W
A computer without Microsoft is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard.


Telegram @eliasw4u
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#10
(07-14-2020, 11:44 PM)eliasw4u Wrote: Freedom of speech [...]

This is not an issue of free speech though (or "freedom of opinion and expression", like it is called where I am from).

Nothing is banned, nothing is policed. Just a few words will be exchanged. Literally nothing else changes.

Can you still go over to your neighbour and explain them your opinion? Yes? Then congratulations, your freedom of speech has not been impaired.
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