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dual boot questions ..
#1
so i've got this plan to put linux on the same computers that i have windows 7 on .. but then i saw this video on youtube by joe collins where he says NOOO DON'T DO THAT  ..  well he made a lotta sense to me but .. he's a guy who's had a lot more experience with linux and probably windows too than me .. and while i do believe he knows what he's talkn about i think the video was a few yeas old and maybe some of his advice might have changed since then ?? to be honest i'd like to just ditch windows entirely but at this point i don't have as much faith in linux as joe collins does .. i do believe in it tho ..i just need a bit more experience and confidence ( and get to move all the pics and documents and stuff over to linux ) before i blow taps on windows for good .. and put it to sleep for that long dirt nap that it probably deserves .. 

so this was my plan .. get another hardrive for two of the desktops i have and then when the computer comes on i can choose which os i wanna use .. and then little by little when i feel i'm ready to take them trainin wheels off i can remove the windows hardrive completely and just store it ..or maybe install another version of linux on it when i feel the time is right .. i mean it don't cost all that much for a 500gb ssd nowadays ... a lot less than a copy of windows woulda cost  .. so that makes sense to me .. i never had any plans of puttin both os. on the same drive .. i think that would get too crazy .. so as long as i keep em on separate drives what else could go wrong ?? no partitions that can screwup .. so somebody tell me how i can step on my own pecker here .. cause if there's a way i'll probably find it .. and i'd rather somebody just told me first .. thanks a bunch ..
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#2
What can go wrong is a Windows update overwrites your bootloader making it unable to boot Linux (unless you have a live USB ready, and you know how to re-install the bootloader manually). As you say you're on Win7, this probably won't happen to you unless... you upgrade to Windows 10.
Second trouble is the timekeeping: Windows sets your hardware clock to your local time, while Linux and most other OSes set the hardware clock to UTC. That might not seem to be a trouble at first, but it's just screwy. This is an interesting read about it: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html Or you can listen to my video I made on the topic if you don't mind me tooting my own horn: https://youtu.be/UVmd2R4H3J0

You should really try a virtual machine if possible on your PC, if not, I'd suggest you buy a 64 GB USB drive and install Linux on the USB by having one drive with the live image on and boot from that. After done, you can just boot your installed USB Linux the same way you booted the live USB, from your BIOS/EFI. This way, you can try out Linux on your PC, check how your hardware works with it, and when done, just unplug the USB, boot Windows, and it has no chance of screwing up anything. The timekeeping problem will still persist though, so if you plan to do this, you should check how to force Windows to use UTC as the hardware clock setting.
My top 10 reasons to still use Arch after 2 months on my main PC at home.
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#3
A dual drive computer is one of the safest ways of having dual boot, though reputedly not entirely immune to being stamped on by Windows. It is what I have done on my own computer which has been trouble-free for nearly three years. However I do take the precaution of never allowing Win7 to update, in fact I only allow Windows to connect to the internet twice per year when I update my Garmin maps.
Cliff Coggin
Mint 19.2 Cinnamon
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#4
(02-25-2020, 11:49 AM)cliffcoggin Wrote: A dual drive computer is one of the safest ways of having dual boot, though reputedly not entirely immune to being stamped on by Windows. It is what I have done on my own computer which has been trouble-free for nearly three years. However I do take the precaution of never allowing Win7 to update, in fact I only allow Windows to connect to the internet twice per year when I update my Garmin maps.

hi cliff , thats what i was thinkin too but tarsolyger and joe collins both mentioned the time conflicts with linux and windows .. and while i watched all of tarsolygers video he kinda lost me for most of it .. but the main gist of it was windows works on local time and linux works on utc time .. and they don't matchup at all .. so you have to change your computer in windows to work on utc time or .. it'll get confused and crash somethin .. far as windows updatin me them days are over now .. i've got 7 and they killed that o.s .. and i'm never gonna update to 10 .. they actually did upgrade one of my computers to 10 anyway once .. after sendin me like gee i dunno a thousand prompts to update to 10 and i said no every time they just figured screw em update his ass anyway .. and they actually blew up my monitor speakers in the process .. to this day nobody can tell me how they managed to do that .. but it happened .. and i witnessed it .. lucky for me they were still under warranty and i got em from sweetwater ..at first sweetwater said we can fix em for ya .. and they just sat there for about a month and they finally said man .. we have no idea what happened here .. how the hell did they blow your speakers up again ?? so i told em again .. they eventually sent em back to behringer and they asked me all the same questions .. they couldn't fix em either so they sent me a brand new pair .. sweetwater actually sent me the new set .. so .. no way i'm gettin anymore updates from windows ........ 7 is the last time windows gets to throw me off and under the bus ..
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#5
There is a solution to the time difference but I never bothered because I use a wristwatch, and given that I only start Windows every six months I really don't care what time it displays.
Cliff Coggin
Mint 19.2 Cinnamon
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#6
(02-27-2020, 02:06 AM)frenchy Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:49 AM)cliffcoggin Wrote: A dual drive computer is one of the safest ways of having dual boot, though reputedly not entirely immune to being stamped on by Windows. It is what I have done on my own computer which has been trouble-free for nearly three years. However I do take the precaution of never allowing Win7 to update, in fact I only allow Windows to connect to the internet twice per year when I update my Garmin maps.

hi cliff , thats what i was thinkin too but tarsolyger and joe collins both mentioned the time conflicts with linux and windows .. and while i watched all of tarsolygers video he kinda lost me for most of it .. but the main gist of it was windows works on local time and linux works on utc time .. and they don't matchup at all .. so you have to change your computer in windows to work on utc time or .. it'll get confused and crash somethin .. far as windows updatin me them days are over now .. i've got 7 and they killed that o.s .. and i'm never gonna update to 10 .. they actually did upgrade one of my computers to 10 anyway once .. after sendin me like gee i dunno a thousand prompts to update to 10 and i said no every time they just figured screw em update his ass anyway .. and they actually blew up my monitor speakers in the process .. to this day nobody can tell me how they managed to do that .. but it happened .. and i witnessed it .. lucky for me they were still under warranty and i got em from sweetwater ..at first sweetwater said we can fix em for ya .. and they just sat there for about a month and they finally said man .. we have no idea what happened here .. how the hell did they blow your speakers up again ?? so i told em again .. they eventually sent em back to behringer and they asked me all the same questions .. they couldn't fix em either so they sent me a brand new pair .. sweetwater actually sent me the new set .. so .. no way i'm gettin anymore updates from windows ........ 7 is the last time windows gets to throw me off and under the bus ..

Years ago I used to dual boot Windows XP Pro and Linux, and then Win7 and Linux.  And I did encounter the time problem described above.  There are fixes, but mainly I just set Linux to display local time, and ignored the time displayed by Windows.  It might help you to make a written list of what you do in Windows, and then see if Linux has programs that let you do the same things.  Unless you are using some very specialized software, you will probably be ok to just ditch Windows.  One thing that I have done for years is to have a separate partition for my data...pictures, music, etc...  That way if I screw up the OS and have to re-install, all of my data is still on the other partition.  I also believe in doing backups to USB hard drives or flash drives.  Online backups may seem easier, but you never really know just who might be looking at your data.

I would try booting from a live DVD or flash drive to check out Linux distros that you are interested in.  I switched my brother and sister-in-law from Win7 to Linux about two years ago, they had a forced install of Win10.  I reverted them back to 7, but it was corrupted, and they never had a Win7 install disk.  They mainly surf the net, look at pictures, listen to music, and do the occasional email.  They get along just fine with Linux (SolydK).
May your Linux journey be a good one!
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#7
(02-25-2020, 11:49 AM)cliffcoggin Wrote: A dual drive computer is one of the safest ways of having dual boot, though reputedly not entirely immune to being stamped on by Windows. It is what I have done on my own computer which has been trouble-free for nearly three years. However I do take the precaution of never allowing Win7 to update, in fact I only allow Windows to connect to the internet twice per year when I update my Garmin maps.

I did the dual drive computer when I first switched but to be sure I unplugged the SATA cable manually each time so NO WAY Win. could mess anything up. Now I'm full time on Cinnamon.
As a Side Question I keep Win. 10 in my case to update my Garmin , as there is no Linux yet for Updates.  Is the a way for Win. 10 or thru the Router to only accept connections for Garmin ( IP address )for map updates to avoid MS. locking up my computer for hours on end but just do a map update  ? or for anyone else for that mater to block MS IP's ?
Dos 3.2 to Win 10.
Main - Cinnamon 19.2
   Resistance Is Not Futile!
       It's voltage divided by current
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#8
(02-28-2020, 10:29 PM)rick forges Wrote: As a Side Question I keep Win. 10 in my case to update my Garmin , as there is no Linux yet for Updates.  Is the a way for Win. 10 or thru the Router to only accept connections for Garmin ( IP address )for map updates to avoid MS. locking up my computer for hours on end but just do a map update  ? or for anyone else for that mater to block MS IP's ?

If there is I would not have a clue. I started to investigate getting OpenStreetMaps onto the Garmin which apparently is possible, but other matters have temporarily suspended that work. If it ever works out I'll start a separate topic to avoid hijacking this one.
Cliff Coggin
Mint 19.2 Cinnamon
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#9
(02-27-2020, 09:41 PM)kb0hae Wrote:
(02-27-2020, 02:06 AM)frenchy Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:49 AM)cliffcoggin Wrote: A dual drive computer is one of the safest ways of having dual boot, though reputedly not entirely immune to being stamped on by Windows. It is what I have done on my own computer which has been trouble-free for nearly three years. However I do take the precaution of never allowing Win7 to update, in fact I only allow Windows to connect to the internet twice per year when I update my Garmin maps.

hi cliff , thats what i was thinkin too but tarsolyger and joe collins both mentioned the time conflicts with linux and windows .. and while i watched all of tarsolygers video he kinda lost me for most of it .. but the main gist of it was windows works on local time and linux works on utc time .. and they don't matchup at all .. so you have to change your computer in windows to work on utc time or .. it'll get confused and crash somethin .. far as windows updatin me them days are over now .. i've got 7 and they killed that o.s .. and i'm never gonna update to 10 .. they actually did upgrade one of my computers to 10 anyway once .. after sendin me like gee i dunno a thousand prompts to update to 10 and i said no every time they just figured screw em update his ass anyway .. and they actually blew up my monitor speakers in the process .. to this day nobody can tell me how they managed to do that .. but it happened .. and i witnessed it .. lucky for me they were still under warranty and i got em from sweetwater ..at first sweetwater said we can fix em for ya .. and they just sat there for about a month and they finally said man .. we have no idea what happened here .. how the hell did they blow your speakers up again ?? so i told em again .. they eventually sent em back to behringer and they asked me all the same questions .. they couldn't fix em either so they sent me a brand new pair .. sweetwater actually sent me the new set .. so .. no way i'm gettin anymore updates from windows ........ 7 is the last time windows gets to throw me off and under the bus ..

Years ago I used to dual boot Windows XP Pro and Linux, and then Win7 and Linux.  And I did encounter the time problem described above.  There are fixes, but mainly I just set Linux to display local time, and ignored the time displayed by Windows.  It might help you to make a written list of what you do in Windows, and then see if Linux has programs that let you do the same things.  Unless you are using some very specialized software, you will probably be ok to just ditch Windows.  One thing that I have done for years is to have a separate partition for my data...pictures, music, etc...  That way if I screw up the OS and have to re-install, all of my data is still on the other partition.  I also believe in doing backups to USB hard drives or flash drives.  Online backups may seem easier, but you never really know just who might be looking at your data.

I would try booting from a live DVD or flash drive to check out Linux distros that you are interested in.  I switched my brother and sister-in-law from Win7 to Linux about two years ago, they had a forced install of Win10.  I reverted them back to 7, but it was corrupted, and they never had a Win7 install disk.  They mainly surf the net, look at pictures, listen to music, and do the occasional email.  They get along just fine with Linux (SolydK).
May your Linux journey be a good one!
well i'm gonna shoot for the easiest versions there are to use at first cliff ..i had tried zorin awhile back and liked it so i'l use a version of that and i'd also like to try linux mint .. but on both of them i'm gonna shoot for the latest lts is it called again ?? long term system ??? and then i won't upgrade unless i feel i really need to .. and i think i figured out the best way to do it too .. on one machine i'm gonna put a windows drive in the computer and use this usb to a hardrive for the linux .. and for the other machine i'll put the linux drive in the machine and put the windows drive on the usb to the drive cable .. this way i can set one machine up with utc time like linux wants and set the other machine up with windows time .. and the only time i'll see the other drive is when i plug it in .. hopefully that will work .. or it should work .. tell me again if i'm gonna end up steppin on my own pecker here like this ?? its the best compromise i can come up with .. for now .. in 6 months i may be goin like a raped ape on the linux and windows will be so far in my rear view .. i hope ..
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